FMH LIVE: Performance Exhaust Review

Oh, let's get started. Hey guys, welcome to this month's live event. I'm Tommy Creal, Contributing Editor to Fix My Hog. I'm sure some of you who might've seen our other live videos past couple of months. But, I wanna mention a few things before we gonna get into our crash course for the next hour here on exhaust systems. We've got a pretty badass little PDF thing right under that chat box you see. It's six causes for potential wobble on your motorcycle. Make sure you download, a good information in there. Never hurts to have too much information. And then secondly, this chat box, we've got a live chat box going here on our website, fixmyhog.com. And if you go in there and just plug in... Plug in your questions, get to those all the way through this live event. Also, we've got some that were already submitted that we'll get to at the end. So I'm planning on doing about half an hour of the actual exhaust systems then hopefully about half an hour a day to get to your questions here on this exhaust system. So, a quick overview on what we're gonna be going through today. We are going to... Let me get this thing out of the way. We're gonna be going through exhaust systems. And this is obviously our number one upgrade for, I'd say 99% of motorcyclists, you're gonna go to your exhaust system. So we're gonna go through a typical exhaust system, two into ones, straight pipes, go into slip ons, the mufflers, baffles, heat shields, what they're all about, what their purpose is. If you need them or don't need them. And then additionally, some of the other stuff I've got some exhaust rep out here I'm gonna show you and then baffles as well. So, I've got this big mock-up engine here. We're gonna... I'm gonna show you guys how to install these real quick. They're pretty self-explanatory but we're gonna take a peek at that as well. So, the first thing that we're gonna go. Let's get diving right into this. You guys are already putting questions in, cool. So what I've got here is I've got a two into one with a slip on muffler exhaust system. And this one is actually a SuperTrapp and we're gonna go through the components on this one. This is your typical baffle that you're gonna see at the end of straight pipes. You're gonna see a bolt right here. What that bolt is actually for is just to secure the baffle towards the end of the muffler or the end of the pipe. if you don't have a muffler on there. And then this is a typical heat shield. Hose clamps right in there, got the tabs for it. Now, a quick quick little tidbit of information here to help you guys. When you're using these hose clamps I would highly suggest never going to a flathead. Go to using a socket on these. You're gonna prevent any scratching on the powder coat. If you have chrome, it's gonna... If you miss one time with that flat head you're gonna go right in the chrome and scratch it up. So, be safe and work carefully on that and get a socket on here. But, tighten these down, start them up before you actually put them on the bike as well too. That's gonna help you out. Stop attempting to throw tools potentially and getting out there. All right, now we've got. This is our muffler. Nowadays on a lot of these baggers that you see, street glides, road glides out there, you're gonna have your slip on. So, whether it be a Vance & Hines Eliminator, maybe one of these super traps, you're gonna have these mounted directly under your bag right here and then slipping right into your two into one or if you have two straight pipes coming out of there. These are... And this is also rear clamp for that tip as well. Moving on in, this is the inside of it. As many of you guys already know, these are for our senses right here. This one actually has a reducer. So this larger hex looking nut with the threads on the inside, that actually goes in first to drop down to the millimeter size that's needed on those sensors. So if you do get a brand new exhaust system make sure you open those packages all up and see if you have a set of these reducers and install those dry and then with your own two sensors, put your copper NICs on there, drop those in and torque them to spec on there. And then we've got our heat shields on this side. And obviously we've got our tops that are gonna go to our exhaust ports right here and also on our other side over there. Now with this exhaust, when mounting this, my recommendation, you're gonna have flanges as well, that you're gonna be using. And then a retaining clip. You always put these flanges in first with the bevel side facing outwards towards the motor, rather than using your smooth chrome side and slip them right over, you're gonna put your retaining clip right on top. Same thing in the front, hold it up, make sure your gasket that's open, in your front area, is nice and secure up there. And then we're just gonna go and push those directly. And I'm just gonna show you a little bit more in a bit. So parts on these exhausts, that's kind of straight forward to sometimes you'll see... Very limited times you'll see a lot more than this, but in concept these are most of the parts of the baffle. You're gonna have your slip on in the rear. You're gonna have your flanges retaining clip gaskets, your heat shields, and then also... Not that. And then also your clamps as well. So that's pretty much the parts list for your exhaust here. And I'm gonna show you two different types of exhaust that we got. And we're gonna be diving in just so you guys know I'm in a little bit here to the back pressure. I know a lot of you had questions on that. What's the purpose of that? How much you need? All that fun stuff and even making your own exhaust set we're gonna pop into as well. So this is off a CVO Softtail Harley. All right, let's move some stuff so we're not scratching. I think we're good there. This is off a CVO Softtail. And these were two straight pipes coming out. Shotgun set up pretty much on the right side of the bike. As you can see the pipes right here, going straight out, one under one over. These are the retaining clips. Retaining clip is pretty much recessed all the way on the clip. Can you see that zoomed in on that one. That's all right. All right, so that retaining clip is gonna come up but up against here, I'm gonna go in. But this is a different kind of setup which you'll see. When you do get your exhaust you're gonna see different kinds of setups. You're gonna see either a ceramic coating like this one where it's more of a flat or a matte black. They also have gloss black and chrome as well. So, again we're gonna be going through a little bit more of that a little bit. But, this is a different kind of setup that you're gonna see with your set up, and Vance & Hines has quite a few of these as well. All right, let's dive into all this, all the fun stuff. I wanna make sure I got everything down for you guys. Oh lastly, with the mounts on your exhaust system too that will be another component. Take a look at what you may need for mounting. This a lot of M-Eight models now are gonna have a different clamp that's gonna space off the exhaust. So, that should be coming in your kit. Some of the older road kings and street glides, when I say older, 06s, 07s, 08s are gonna have an attachment as well for the clamps. But, you're gonna have one of these clamps in the back. It's gonna come off right onto your oil pan, secure your crossover member, to the other side of your bag. And that's gonna be one of your mounts. The other mounts is gonna be right onto your timing cover. And the other two amounts, as I already mentioned, are gonna be right under your bags. Those are gonna be that straight plate that you'll see right there, two bolts going through and then that rubber grommet to help absorb all those bumps and action that back ends getting there. Are you able to get that? Looking good. All right, looking good. All right, here's a... We're gonna get into putting one of these on. And I won't bore you with this. We're gonna make this one. All right, so what I've got here is mock-up engine. It's pretty nice and I can't lie. This is about five pounds. That's about it. So, I'm not that sure. And we're got an angle on that. All right, so what we're mounting, or exhaust, whether it be just a hetero set or something like the Supertrapp. The first thing that we wanna do is number one put our exhaust gaskets right in here. See them well. What I actually use is a bearing race installer for the next. Simply being, if you look at these exhaust systems, man, we got a lot of stuff up here. If you look at these exhaust systems, top of the header is you're gonna see that tapered element right on the top here, right behind the lip. The reason for that it's gonna seal directly into your gasket. So that's why I've got in different sizes of course, these race installers as well. Put the gasket right in top on your exhaust port. And here, what we're gonna do is take this in let the tablet with a rubber mallet and seat those both well. I like to run my finger around and make sure it's smooth. Same thing on the outside. Run your finger around. Make sure it's seated in there pretty well. And that'll avoid any potential leakage or issues down the road of that gasket wearing out. Now before we jump in, gasket usage. For you guys, everyone's got their own rule of thumb. When I've come to find out after almost a decade of doing this, is that you can take your gaskets and reuse them if they're not torn. If you don't see them absorbed in or squished in there. And also I always say under a thousand miles you're pretty much good to reuse but if you have the option, you just wanna play it safe. Switch those gaskets right out and install new one. All right, so gaskets installed. For this, next thing that we're gonna be doing is the exhaust headers are gonna come up to both these areas. Now you may need to prime a part a little bit by your hand, never use any tools, never use any wrenches to pry off your bike. Obviously that's gonna put damage to your bike and then go deeper into your pocket for some fixes. So, what we're gonna do, in this circumstance, this is not gonna fit on this one because it's a different setup, but what we need to do is pull this apart. We're gonna push it directly in and then we're gonna slide our flange directly over those exhaust studs. Now, I like to start those nuts by hand to prevent any cross threading that it'll probably be one of the worst headaches you'll come to grips with. That'll probably be one of the worst headaches that you run into is redoing these exhaust studs. So, probably those out, put those retaining clips and secure those nice and push that exhaust up in there so it's seated flush. Start your nuts by hand, bring them directly up on both sides and then tighten your head or piece all the way down, depending on what I'm not gonna give you any torque specs but depending on whatever you're using or whatever you're riding, make sure you're using or referring to your service manual for that torque spec as well. So, torque those down and then from there you're gonna move your way backwards. I know a lot of people do it backwards, forwards. I like to do it right there in the middle and then work backwards. So get those secured down, go down to your frame, clamp that down. And then if you're doing one of these mufflers that you gonna eliminate on the back, put one of those guys. Put that on, secure the clamp and then secure those bolts in and you're good to go. And then I'll take a run through it. Make sure these are all secured all the way down. That's a mess if these aren't... These are leaking and you're trying to hone in or get some performance out of it. Make sure those are in good shape. You see that gone, all right. All right, so for installation, that's the... That's typically eight or nine times out of 10. That's what you're gonna be going through. If you're concerned about scratching or like the guys with me in the shop, we put tape all the way down. We put rags all the way down, even over the fins, we'll put on the actual exhaust and that's your first layer defensive of anything getting scratched up or becoming a headache for you. So, when you're putting these on make sure you're getting your work area all clean, getting those rags down to prevent anything from falling. It happens to the best of us. So, don't feel bad if it does happen. Just take your time while doing it. All right, and then once we get that installation, all done, what you're gonna do is move on to your remaining heat shields as well. So we're gonna be putting this heat shield on and then the tip and then running through it, making sure everything's torqued down to spec, everything's tight. Our two sensors are all hooked up. And then anything else that you may have taken off during that installation and then re hooking up that battery, you'll be good to go for installation. So, it'd be back on the road no time. So I think that's pretty much the gist. I don't wanna break it down too far. That's the nuts and bolts of of installation with us. All right, we can get rid of this thing. All right, so we're gonna do... I think that's gonna be beneficial for you guys to take a look inside one of these exhausts, one of these mufflers. Might be safer bet then, than doing that in your garage, right off the bat. So what we have in these mufflers, while you hear the different tones, different pitches, volumes, if you hear people saying it's throaty or it's got a whistle is because of what's inside here. So we either have the packing or we have baffles in here helping with airflow or restricting it to a certain extent to give us that noise that we're wanting or to, if you're your long-term goal is to get performance out of your bike you're gonna have quite an extensive set up, not only with your exhaust, but likely with the tuner at intake and then you'll be going back to fine tune that. But for our measures here today, we've got back baffles and padding inside here to help restrict things, airflow and then also discs. So this Supertrapp's set up. I'm gonna take off the tip and we're gonna work our way back around to install on this quickly. Quickly yep, correctly. Well, I'm listening to all these bolts. We wanna mention we just got done doing some Milwaukee-Eight upgrades. We did a... We actually did a two into one exhaust with this Supertrapp. We also did a Vines & Hines with illuminary slip-ons for hundreds and also some intakes sort of so videos will be out shortly and make sure to come back and check those out. And then we also have some videos on exhausted removals and all the... Everything you pretty much needed to know to do it yourself inside your garage. So check those out on the site. Now, Wallace disassemble is... I've seen people go through and you'd like to use our power tools on this kind of stuff and say, well, we're getting the bolts down secure and then we'll go down and torque it and that's not necessarily why you don't wanna use those things with power tools, using them on bikes all together. You're actually avoiding any potential alerts to yourself about cross stored in these bolts in So, you can pretty much feel that crossword coming into place, or it's gonna get over tightened or not even aligned. You're gonna feel it right here in your hand rather than having something to just drive right through that. So, I know this is a little bit longer but take your time with it. And those power tools can cause double the work for you if you're not using them correctly. All right. I'm gonna keep checking that chat for you guys. So if you guys have any questions, drop them right in there. I'll get around to reading those out and getting going. I'm trying to get you some answers. No, good stuff about this exhaust. I guess I can go over the finishing as well right now. So if you were... and we're gonna cover this a little bit more, by the way. If you were to get exhausts for some reason, a low condition which they do have out there and it was your choice to get something you know, either ceramic coated or chrome, there isn't a special quote unquote benefit to having either or it's comes down to cosmetics. The chrome obviously, you're gonna get more gold or bluing towards the tips, towards the top of the headers. And then also you won't see that as much if you're getting a darker ceramic coated exhaust set. So, there's pros and cons to both of them, with the chrome. What we use is actually a blue gone to get rid of that. And you wanna use that within the first 500 miles before that becomes a permanent feature on your exhaust pipes, which I've been guilty of that, I'll admit it. All right. So Supertrapps, little famous spiel here is all these discs. I think we got 22 of them to be exact. We don't need those anymore. But, it's gonna be packed any specific. They recommend putting them all on there but they also have different recommendations for what your use is and how many to use. So make sure to check that out. And then right on the front is our tip where it's closed off right here. Arrows escaping right through the tip back here and all these disks. So it's not directly coming all the way through here. All right, you're ready camera worker? All right, here's our internal get on that. Good, all right guys. So this is the internal of this... The Supertrapp again. As you can see, there's more or less grated metal right through the entire sleeve here. The outside is packing or foam, whoever depending on the manufacturers got a different term for that. And that's helping with silence the exhaust system itself. And then also for EPA, you got to love those guys. They're always chiming in all this stuff. So, that's helping with the exhibiting pollution. And obviously with our exhaust system, what we're doing is, we're taking all the spent gases and getting them out into the atmosphere. So, it's coming right through here and that limits what we're pushing out with the carb or carbon cell dioxide. So that's the internals for some of them. Other times you will see on some of the older soft tail models, and then always all the way back to the early two thousands you'll see these guys with a slipping directly in the pretty much be... Coming in, right on here, I'll slip right in. Obviously we're gonna have the right outer diameter pipe for this, and then it's just gonna be directly in there. So, this is what EPA and all those officials look for to make sure your baffles are in there and you're meeting the regulations. So that's the fun stuff. This is where we're at. We're gonna take pop this back in the office. Well, let me get this out there. Show you what we're really working with. And again if you're working on your exhaust and you're making modifications as I got this blank... I've got that blanket down here, make sure your work area you're not gonna have it directly in the wood. That's not gonna come. Make sure it's directly in the wood. Not directly in the woods, sorry. Let me focus here. Not directly in the wood and then you're preventing any scratches to it. So, all right. I don't wanna kill our time here trying to get this off. It's gonna take some finagling but the inside of these mufflers are pretty much universal. That's what we got. You got the patent if not a baffle in there. If you want to upgrade your noise and get a more throaty sound, you have that stuff in there. Refer to the manufacturer. They're gonna probably say don't take these and do not remove them because of the issues that run into with EPA. But, everyone's got their own decisions. So, make it wisely. Not saying yay or nay. All right, so that's our Supertrapp again. I'm gonna see if you guys questions you guys got. Make sure you drop them in. All right, we've got... I've got numerous questions but I'm gonna answer this one right off the bat. Excuse me. All right, Dave. All right. Dave is wondering if it is necessary to upgrade the air cleaner when you install slip ons. Again, refer to the manufacturer but from our experiences in doing this day to day, you do not need to upgrade the air cleaner. That's obviously, they go hand in hand pretty much but that's not necessarily needed during that. If you're going for performance and you want to and say you have a tuner, something like this, what would what we did put on one of the Milwaukee-Eights, then you might wanna look into doing that because it's gonna allow more air to come in allowing more air to go out. And then you're gonna be working with tuning your sensors, your timing, advancing that or retarding that. And you would look into it. So, cut and dry answer, no, you don't need to right off the bat if you're just a daily rider out there scooting around. Otherwise, if you're going for performance, yeah. You'll wanna take a look into getting like more performance tuned air cleaner as well. Welcome to the chat roll. All right guys, that's some parts. Anything, if you guys got questions on that, drop those on in the chat box. I know I keep saying it, but now's your time to shine. If you've got any questions, let me know. All right, we're gonna go over two major things. We've had a... If you want to take the task on custom making your exhaust, congratulations, that's the good stuff. And am being honest about that. We obviously make all most of our exhaust so that we put on bikes. I'm gonna go through some of them the step-by-steps to do on that. And then also the finishing on that. And then we're gonna get into the back pressure. I know everyone's got questions on that stuff, so. All right, so when making exhaust actually I'll back up. I got too much on my mind right now. I wanna spit out at you guys. If you are buying exhaust number one and to put on your bike and for say it's a used set up that you have. We've had people come in and say what should I look for in buying a used one if it's not new? Number one, I tell everyone to look at the slip on of the muffler to see if there's any rust also run your hand under those back mufflers to see if there's any scarring or issues with the finishing being moved up and getting removed from there. And then also just looking at the coloration at the head of the pipes too. Obviously they should be removed off the bikes that they're selling them, but, for any reason if they're on there still, just make sure that you're getting a normal color of de-coloration through that top area down and you'll be able to see from there and obviously make sure you're getting the right gaskets for your model and also the right mounts and everything. So, take your time in getting it. This is... It can be expensive as well. Exhaust pipes, as you know are $1,500 around there for a true setup. So... Just scroll down there's a question about 210.. Where those questions are? 2010 ultra. Thank you Zack. All right, we'll jump on this one right after here. I'll get right to you on your question here with your 2010 ultra. I've got something that I'll discuss with you that I think that'll help with them. Quickly before we go into all these questions in the back pressure, custom making one of these guys are modifying existing set that you have. It's actually more common than many people would think. To the larger items that we like to mention with people is that to watch your space and make sure that these pipes are away from all moving parts. So what we... What we typically do is we'll start from the exhaust ports and bolt-on directly our flanges and route our exhaust going through either the top of the tap blocks or under that. But when making these... Making altercations to your existing exhaust, a lot of times what you don't wanna do is just cut a straight cut with a bandsaw or whatever side grinder, and then badly directly back up for a weld. It can be beneficial to put a smaller sleeve in there as well, and welding through that and then working your way backwards and continue to put those smaller diameter sleeves in there. Just making sure that they are the correct fit and working your way back. When you get to the end of making your alternate altercations to it, you're gonna have to finish up your welds. And we use TIG welding in for everything. You can use MIG welding, and MIG it around all the way and just tack right through it and grind it down. My biggest point to make here is when you're sanding these down, never take your air grinder or whatever tool you may be using, even the side grinder. And hold it directly right here, face down like this. You don't ever wanna go against the pipe screen like that because what you're gonna get is you're gonna get what they call catering in the valleys in there and it's gonna dip down and when no matter if you're getting a ceramic coated, chrome coated, it's gonna pop right through and show and anything that you may have done to potentially scratch it along the way too. So, take that visual look. So rather than putting your grinder down like this or your sander, what we're gonna do is put those high points, we're just gonna go in a circular pattern quickly all the way around making sure that we're taking it down evenly. Don't worry about getting it down right off the bat and then getting the next spot all the way taken down. Excuse me, it's much easier to go all the way around taking an eighth inch off, 16th of an inch off and then continue to work your way all the way through. And then you're gonna have a nice flush area with that. If you wanna step it up, you can also get into belt standards for this, something similar to this and doing the same thing, continuing to move it. Don't ever hold that tool, down flush on this area because you're gonna get, like I said those areas for baileys and little craters there. And then additionally on these exhaust pipes, once you get, make your modifications or extend your pipe whatever it may be. Go all the way through and make sure there aren't any significant scratches. Something like you zoom on that body. Some scratch like that. You there? All right. A scratch like that will actually pop through. This is fairly deep down there. So if you're gonna get this without heat shields put on, or exhaust wrap put on, that thing is really gonna come flying through. So, take your side sander or your air grinder and put that right down and make sure you're sending this out in the shape that you wanna get it back in. Doesn't hurt to ever be... To try to be perfect on these things as well. So custom making these exhaust for you guys that are into the older or yeah, the older pan heads, shovel heads, even going back to the flatheads. This would be something that you'd wanna do rather than potentially going out and trying to find a replica or an OEM set up to replace that exhaust set making. It can be a lot easier to just get in your... If it's one in a quarter audi, pipe or whatever you may be using, that's typically an easier approach. And to bend these, if you're gonna go down to an extensive overhaul and you're exhaust we're gonna build the whole thing. You can just do mandrel bends with it and making sure that your wall diameter of that exhaust pipe is suitable and can withstand those bands. And also the vibrations that we get on the road while we're riding. So, you got any more questions on that? That's a... This is a whole different topic, a whole another area that we can go into but I wanted to kind of give you the landscape of your custom exhaust if you were to modify it. So, remember just take your time on it making sure that you're sending out in the shape you want it to come back and you'll be good to go. Additionally, a couple of things with finishing the exhaust up, I just had over here some exhaust wrap and this is gonna kind of tie into, and there we go. Now we've got a shovel head question as well. I used to be a big fan of this when I was building my old barbers back in 10 years ago. On tour, we used to do this all the time. Wrap up the exhaust after getting it ceramic coated, we typically do it silver or a matte black and wrap this up. Now the big claim to fame with these guys is that this help with performance horsepower specifically, just because they are helping to retain heat and give you a a better jump and burn those gases a lot quicker and helping to exit the exhaust pipe better. That's what they continue to the data to say now, I'm not gonna say if that's true or not. 'Cause I actually don't have a definitive answer on that but we were going after more of the cosmetic lift to be honest with yourself. But that's the purpose of these. What they say is it will help with horsepower whether it's one or two or very small area, that's still an addition. So finishing your pipes up back on that with using these exhaust ramps, there's even copper out there too by the way. What we do is you're gonna wet the entire roll. Typically it's a 25 or 50 foot roll you'll get. Put it in the sink, turn hot on and let these things soak. And literally they... You wanna pull it out with a dripping. And the reason for that is right now, there's a little fiberglass in here. This is very rigid and it can't move too much. There's no ability to stretch this out. And when you get that all wet, what you're able to do is make the small one inch area pretty much one inch and a quarter. So we're gonna start at the top of the exhaust pipe. And what better way to show you is they actually do it. I'll be darn making sure also that your flanges are already pushed all the way up. Believe it or not, once you start going at it and you're not gonna have an oxygen sensor on your older bikes, these won't go over the top. So it will be kind of soleil on that. So I'm gonna start... Can you see right there? Yeah, all right. So gonna start... Right here you can even put a zip tie around, fold it over and then pull it over. And once you get that first one down, it's pretty much solid. You don't have to worry too much about it but then continuing to put some pressure and pull on this this area and continue to wrap it all the way around. No, I'm big on matching having these distances match just because am... Could be a fanatic on details But, 'cause you can see... Can you see this right here? All these layovers, you could just wanna obviously make sure they're equal distance all the way down. And then all the way to the back end you can put metal cable ties. You can put a heat shield clamps on there as well. Those hose clamps, sorry. And it'd be good to rock and roll. Don't ever put zip ties. Believe it or not, I've seen that. A couple of bikes in Sturgis before and apparently you're exhaust gets hot and they're made of plastic. So, put two and two together. They'll be going down quickly. So that's one approach that finishing up your exhaust or even if you have an existing exhaust and a lot of road glides and street glides out there that are customized to the brim. Now, you'll see a portion of this used on there. It also helps if your leg is... if it's custom and your leg is coming right on that side on your intake side and almost buttoned up to your exhaust pipe, this does help, not issue so much heat off your pipes. So, it's a good alternative. So, and the other two kind of finishing is obviously chrome, which we all know, chrome is. It's a buildup of various different kinds of chemicals. So they dip it in copper, they dip it in nickel. And they're finishing it with chrome. So you have various various buildup on those and it looks good and easy to clean too. So, and then ceramic coating, not powder coating, it's the same process. Ceramic coatings, a higher tolerance for temperature. That's another one to go, go and do it. You just can't mix those two up. Unfortunately, I'm sure there'd be a lot of we're looking bikes out there if that was the case. So, that's the finishing element to our exhaust and again, I'm getting questions on that. Drop it right in, but hopefully we're getting some good information out to you right now. All right, now we kinda wrap up that Back pressure, here you go. This is what we all been waiting for All right Zack. All right, we did have a question already come in on back pressure. And... So what is back pressure? Just start with. Back pressure is... Well, let's start. What is back pressure? Number one, in your engine obviously, we are taking all the spank gases from our heads here and getting them out of our entire system, exhaust system. So, we wanna make sure that air travels one way and that's directly out. We don't wanna bring those spank gasses back in, not only will it do damage in harm to your engine in the more back pressure we have, it'll do harm, but that's the purpose of having our exhaust system is obviously to get all that that out of here, the more air we have going out, that means we're bringing quite a bit in. Better combustion, better ignition, and we better be... Have a good source to igniting that combustion as well. And remember, it's not a fire inside our combustion chamber right there. It's more of a, like they said, combustion or it's burning off those chemicals alone for that power, but, not to go out too much into detail on that. So that's the purpose of our exhaust system. Now with back pressure, what that is, it is having some bends or kinks inside here, including your padding and your baffles to push air back up towards the front of your exhaust. Now, there is a certain amount that you do want your bike and there's definitely a mount that will cause you a massive headache in early deterioration to your bike as well. So, answering the question that we have and I'm gonna kick this off with with this whole discussion. Your question was, the amount of back pressure... Pardon me one minute. That's good. I wanna make sure I get this question to answer correctly for you. All right. Come on Dennis, where's that thing. All right, the correct amount. Is there a correct amount of back pressure needed in the exhaust system? Yes and no is the answer. What you want is, you want to bring your bike to about 2000 RPMs. A little bit about 1500 would be fine as well. And you want to have two PSI coming directly out of your exhaust system for that. So to do that, obviously get a measuring gauge out and bring that in. If you're above, I would say about 10 and even above seven, you're gonna be looking into doing harm to your engine. Now that wouldn't be right away you'd notice that, but that would be probably about 10,000 miles into your bike. You gotta start seeing some performance issues with it, whether it be lagging, it seems like it's kind of puttering and you don't have that hip and that hop to it. Again that you when you first had with it. So make sure you do pay attention to that if you're making your custom exhaust set and going that route. I would limit the bends and kinks all the way through. Now, something like this, this is a nice setup because there's the ability to fly right out of this exhaust system. And now once you start putting all these bins and pretty much making it look like an SRCs season here, that's where that back pressure starts to build up and shoot back because the ability for it to exit is gonna be a little bit more challenging than it would be with having slight forty-five degree bends, 30 degree bends somewhere around there. So, answer the question, get your bike up to about 2000 RPMs, maybe 1750, and check to make sure you have what about two or three PSI pounds per square inch coming out of there of pressure. So, that's the best route to take. Now keep in mind, again getting above those you're gonna cause harm to your bike. And this can be something that's easily overlooked. If you're getting exhaust for manufacturers and they're sending it right out pretty much on point with that. So you don't have to worry about what your top dog manufacturers go in and say, well, I got to check this out and you don't. They've already done all that fun stuff for you. That's why I'm making the big bucks and same thing with EPA. So back pressure is the amount of pressure that we're getting coming out of the exhaust and keep in mind as you go through, keep that in the back of your mind to check if you're making your own exhaust. The other question, do you need it? Yes, you do need it to that certain extent. And to increase if you were to take your baffle. Here's the additional question. And in a nutshell, what if you were to take your out baffles on. I know this is your go-to gig for having a more thrown your exhaust system or having it sound better. So if you take those baffles off, keep in mind that you may not have that back pressure needed. So if you have the time, I'd encourage you to check your back pressure there. Otherwise, you're still on the safe side with it but, taking the baffles out is not only affecting just the sound. Keep in mind there's a lot of determining factors under that too. That's gonna lead back to the main thing and that's your drive train your motor all the way to your primary too. So, keep that in mind. I think that's what we got on back pressure. All right, few more questions in here. Now we're about exhaust. All right. All right, Kevin I have two inch diameter, 36 amps long dry pipes and a modified 93 shovel. Lots of issues there I know. But I cut down some evil torque cones and welding them into the head pipe so it's all right. Seem to give me some back pressure. And she still runs and she runs better. Your thoughts on torque cones and about the necessitivity of having some back pressure. So Kevin as I mentioned here, having a little bit of back pressure is good. It'll help with noise, believe it or not too. So, getting that out, but torque cones, I'm a big believer in torque cones. Just, you've got them on the right spot. There shouldn't be any issue with them. My suggestion, if you were to do anything with it and you don't want to kill the noise since you have 200 inch diameter, I'm sure that thing sounds pretty beefy and loud, you can put a smaller set of baffles in as well to gain that back pressure. Believe it or not something like this isn't gonna be quite a big difference for even seasoned writers. I'm sure you probably are with that kind of bike there. You're not gonna even be able to hear that too much, the difference. But this would give you that kind of back pressure needed. They do make these in slightly smaller size audi then two inch I do know that, but this could be added in there as well. I can be very deceptive with the eye too. So you can hide these towards the front before you have a band coming out to your three foot long dry pipe. So it's pretty wicked, I like it. So, torque cones though, your main question here, they're good for that back pressure for sure. And additionally, that's the name torque cones. They're gonna give you some performance now whether that to be accurate or not. I've never truly tested that. So I can't... I'd be lying if I gave you a specific answer. But yeah, they're supposed to help with giving you a little bit added performance there. But shoot us some pictures of that bike. I'd love to see it. That's a... We've done some for shovel heads and they've come up with suite. So, it looks pretty cool. And then let's see. I've got 2010 ultra limited with performance slip-ons. I took the header pipe off and remove the Cadillac converter to reduce the heat and increased performance. What's the best way to reduce heat? I guess... Sorry, let me read that once again for you guys. We've got a question. I have a 2010 ultra limited with performance slip-ons. I took the header pipe off and removed the catalytic converter to reduce the heat increased performance. What is the best way to reduce heat? Now, I guess reducing heat, one of the ways I mentioned earlier, and I'm sure you don't wanna do this is number one taking these exhaust wraps and putting them through. You can even do an under your heat shields. On some bike, you probably have there, I'm guessing. If you have slip-ons that you're gonna have heat shields on whatever exhaust pipe you have, exhaust set. You can add these under your heat shields which will help prevent and hone the heat into your moving parts there. So this would be a recommendation now going after permanent, excuse me, lunges back, more permanent options. We've never run into this issue too much. So, cadillac converter would have been been the first and last thing I tried on there. We'll get... I'll look that up a little bit more and talk with my colleagues here and get you a better answer on that. But my first go-to cadillac converter taking these off and then actually you can fine tune it with a tutor as well, a fuel pack. I'm sure many of you have seen these in your stage one kits that you probably already done. This is a fuel packed Vines & Hines right here. And this was another upgrade we did to the Milwaukee-Eight. By the way those would be dropping here soon. But, taking this in a fine tuner right into to play. You can go into adjusting the oxygen sensors. You can go into your timing. I mean, there's numerous things as well that you can adjust with this as well. To help cool the place you can add a cylinder like Yeah, those are usually. in here either. So one of my colleagues right there was talking about additionally helping with reduce the heat. You can put in a cooling fan right in the front and then also low jugs and working with that. But back onto the tuner for you guys with newer bikes and even your 2010 this would be something you can look into as well and download and go through their specs and getting that thing pumped down. All right, let's see where we're at. Few more questions guys. Shoot them on in if you got them. We'll get to them here. I did wanna mention when this Milwaukee-Eight that we did. We had the guy bring the bike in and there was some slip on mufflers that we had in the back for obviously the dual setup. And immediately when we took the pipes off under the pipe was all rust and we had rust one running out of the muffler as well. Number one being that the pipe was was probably stored and improperly and also had condensation building up in that muffler. But number two is also the manufacturer of that. And I mentioned that because you really do pay for what you get in this kind of circumstance. So if you are going with a lower end, Amazon kind of deal, take a look at what you're really getting, because that exhaust that may only last you a little while at a time and may do some harm to your bike overall that you don't obviously want. So, when you're researching and going into putting your exhaust system on, whether it be for performance, whether it be for looks or sound, make sure it matches up with your longterm goal and that you're not shorten yourself on anything. And if you are doing your exhaust and you have the the money to upgrade on this additionally, I would suggest going up and doing an intake of some sorts to help further that exhaust system. And it does... It will help with getting that throatiness or a pitch out of your exhaust and then also getting into a tuner to combine and bring all those components together as well, that will really help. So, it's going through your exhaust system. I know everyone jumps right off and you get that pretty bike off. The showroom floor was with five miles on it and you got seven miles and you're already ripping the exhaust off. Take your time, get a good set put on there and make sure you're paying to the small. Make sure you're paying attention to the little details and these things they do pay off. And you know, there's a lot of sayings with your bikes, it's like your old lady, so, treat her right. And do it the right way, so. All right guys, shoot the questions in. We've got a couple minutes left. So, I'm gonna go through just a few more things that I may have skipped over. May not have skipped over it as well. Performance... All right, what performance wise on this? I know performances can be a loosely used term as well. I've got buddies that have performance pipes and performance intake but they ride in like they are passing someone on the shoulder barely and they ride slow. So they use the performance for that term. But performance on these all comes down to your tips for the most part and the back pressure and tuning in your sensors and all that. So there's a big factor of getting that performance component put together. And if you want to shoot a question and we can put a... I can put a list together for you on how to make sure you get everything in power but if you're going after performance side and you truly wanna get it quicker and you wanna get it faster or gain some horsepower out of it, the first thing you should do and get into new exhaust pipe is, are set, after purchasing it with the manufacturers to take a dive into a tuner at least, and make sure you're able to fine tune that as well. Thanks for the answer. I also have a 2017 ultra limited. How about some discussion on two into one versus two duals? And then also can I shoot you a picture of my ? Sure, let's see it man. Two into ones versus two duals. I'm a big fan of two duals versus two into ones, not only because of the airflow but also the ability to put them out as well with that Milwaukee-Eight, with the two duals on that. And that was probably one of the easier setups that we did on there. If you're doing this at home as well, I'd recommend doing that route. You're a crossover member and the backs gonna be your only hiccup on that and same thing with the mounting bracket and the back. But if you're looking at it from a point of I guess maintenance and long-term usability and making sure it lasts a while, I'd take that in with the two into ones, you're gonna have less parts. Obviously they can be easier to maintain but also that you're cutting out some horsepower as well just due to the fact that we're just gonna straight out. So, there's a whole laundry list of pros and cons to those, but for a general writer, and I'm not assuming you are, but we'll put that out there. That general writer, I would assume that you look into the maintenance factor. You're looking into making sure you're getting your money's worth of it. And then additionally, making sure that it's gonna last you a long time so you can make your opinions on that. But again, for me, it'd be the two duals and the the two into ones that are a lot easier to maintain. And if you're looking to mix things up, go with the two into ones. But a big fan of the two duals and their performance side for me. And additionally, you're getting a better sound out of them as well, just because you're actually getting air flow to both, obviously your left side. If you're in the rear of your bike, your left muffler slip on will will be a slightly less powerful coming out and have a little less of a noise, but it's still a good route to go. So, that's what I got for ya initially without diving into a can of worms here, Kevin. Dennis, how can I shoot you that? So in concept, what we've got the exhausted installation with that, remember take your time, kind of go through and make sure all the parts are good. If you're removing a brand new exhaust set right off the showroom floor, those gaskets most likely can be reused. However, don't forget to still inspect those and make sure they're on there correctly ensuited because everyone's human, machine could even make a mistake on hand as well. But take your time installing that. Make sure you're everything is taught to spec. Additionally, when you're putting those on, make sure you're not bending or kinking your exhaust studs that can be easily done by putting too much pressure on one side of the flange versus the other. So you always want to take those in if your torque spec is at 22, take those in at a quarter increments all the way through and then move to the back and that'll avoid having those bind up or kink and then down to a head job. So, take your time, run through that, making your own exhaust set member, insert sleeves, make sure you have some kind of source for issuing back pressure. If it's not a bend or a kink in that exhaust system make sure you do have a baffler as well. Or even as Kevin had said here with the shovel head you can use those torque homes in there. However, they're not used too much as they were used 10 years ago. But they're still out there being used quite a bit. And then additionally heat shields and putting this all together make sure your work area is safe and you're good to go. If you guys got any more questions make sure you shoot them in. We'll be popping up and I'll be able to help answer some after this live event for you as well. And hopefully you guys learned a lot out of today and thanks for joining us on this month's Fix My Hog event. Guys, have a great Christmas and we'll see you next month.